by Douglas R. Johnson
October 9, 2000

Communion of Saints is a phrase from the Apostles' Creed which is quite universally adhered to by just about all denominations. After forty years plus of hearing sermons in many different evangelical churches of various denominations, I cannot remember even one sermon dealing with the subject nor even one reference to it in any sermon. We will discuss the concept of "praying to the dead" in light of:

• Dead or Present with the Lord
• Worship in Heaven
• Transfiguration
• Angel's Ministry
• Lazarus Come Forth

"There shall not be found among you any one that makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer." [Duet. 18:10,11]

"And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die? And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel." [1 Sam. 28:6-11]

Throughout the book of Acts, we see no example of anyone praying to any dead person. When Stephen was stoned, we hear no more about him.

These two factors, the prohibition against consulting with the dead and no examples in Scriptures, both sum up all of Protestant theology concerning the "communion of saints", namely the saints that are alive in communion with other living saints as well as God and those saints who have died may communicate with other dead saints and with God but definitely not with living saints.

Just as a note for clarification. The word "saints" applies to all Christians both in the Catholic usage of the word and Protestant usage of the word when applied to the phrase "communion of saints".

Now that we started with the Protestant position, let's look at Scripture and see if we can fit Catholic teaching into a reasonable interpretation of Scripture.

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." [2 Cor. 5:8]

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." [John 23:43]

"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand." [Rev. 8:3,4] (emphasis added)

"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshiped him that lives for ever and ever." [Rev. 5:6-14]

"And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only." [Matt. 17:1-8] (emphasis added)

"And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves." [Mark 9:2-8] (emphasis added)

" And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen." [Luke 9:28-36] (emphasis added)

Luke 1 and 2 gives multiple accounts of angels appearing to people and talking with them. This more than hearing a voice, it is a full conversation. These are not dreams nor trances but face to face appearances. In Acts, an angel appears to Peter and leads him out of prison. These are not controversial passages nor are they hidden. Angels appear to humans many times in Scripture on a face to face basis. This does not include the many times angels appears in dreams. Angels also appeared many times in the Old Testament.

The New Testament is also filled with examples of humans talking with demons, commanding them to leave. Part of the Great Commission is: "...in My name they shall cast out demons...." [Mark 16:17] You do not have to wait for a demon to speak, you can cast him out as soon as you perceive he is there.

There are two specific instances of speaking to dead people commanding them to come to life. The first is where Jesus raises Lazarus after he was dead four days by calling to him: "Lazarus, come forth". Peter raises the dead girl by saying to her, "Tabitha, arise."

The assumption has always been by Protestants that Catholics pray to saints all the time, that they pray to them more than they pray to God. We have all heard of Saint Somebody helping one find his keys or some other lost article. Another saint keeps us safe on the highway. These examples of prayers to saints just are not in the official Catechism of the Catholic Church. If you don't believe me, check it out yourself.

The Catholic Church does suggest that you request Saints to pray for you. Just as you might ask your pastor on earth to pray for you, you can ask a departed Saint in heaven to pray for you.

You can also ask Mary to pray for you but we will deal with Mary as a separate Article.

Let's line up a few Scriptures:

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" [Acts 10:34]

"For there is no respect of persons with God." [Rom 2:11]

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." [James 5:16b]

"And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job. So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job. And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before." [Job 42:7-10] (emphasis added)

Hebrews talks about this great cloud of witnesses who are now in heaven. Are they watching us or are they also available for intercession?

Let's say you were alive when Peter and Paul were about to be martyred. You had requested that they pray for some need you had and they agreed. Does that intercession get stopped by the act of satan?

I believe that the Church dealt with these questions many hundreds of years before the Reformation and that answer was widely accepted then. I believe it can also be accepted now.

I believe that Catholic laymen have abused the "intercession process" and gotten into an area of abuse. I believe the Catholic Church has an obligation to enforce its official position.